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<p>In this fourth episode of the <em>Planning Theory</em> podcast, Mona Fawaz and Yvonne Rydin talk with Jean Hillier, Professor Emerita in the Centre for Urban Research at RMIT University, Melbourne. Jean is well-known to <em>Planning Theory</em> readers as a frequent contributor of papers on collaborative planning, agonism, indigenous communities and more-than-human knowledge. She explores some of these issues in the podcast.</p>